The rapture is a commonly taught doctrine by the churches of today. Some rapturists will argue there will be a Pre, Mid or Post tribulation escape of the church. The question is, can we document any sort of rapture or escape in God’s Word? Let’s start by opening our Bibles to I Thessalonians 4. Typically, verse 17 is pointed to as proof of a rapture. However, we need to identify the subject at hand. In order to accomplish that let’s start with verse 13. Before we start, let’s ask our Father for wisdom and understanding of his Word, in Jesus Name Amen.
I Thessalonians 4:13
13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
The topic at hand is concerning where the dead are. If we believe Christ is risen, so then are the ones who have passed on before us. They are risen with Him (II Corinthians 5:8).
I Thessalonians 4:15
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep."
We can’t prevent them because they have already passed on and are with Christ. Risen as He has.
I Thessalonians 4:16
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
The Trump of God is the last trump, the seventh (Revelation 10:7, "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets”). Jesus will not return to earth or the Mount of Olives until that time. At the sixth trump, Satan will be kicked out of heaven and onto this earth playing his roll as Jesus Christ. This is why we must study to show ourselves approved.
I Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
Now we have a clear picture. We that are alive at Christ’s return, at the seventh trump will meet with Him and those who have passed on before us. The word “air” (Strong’s Word: 109) here means to “breathe”. This is the breath, the breath of life, just as God breathed it into Adam (Genesis 2:7). At the last trump, the seventh which is Christ’s return we will be changed into our spiritual bodies, in the twinkling of an eye, just as Paul foretold us in I Corinthians 15:51-56. (If you are not in a spiritual body, then Jesus hasn’t returned!)
Now let's take a look at the word "cloud" used here.
Hebrews 12:1
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,”
Paul used the word “cloud” here as well. Why? It’s a figure of speech, there were so many witnesses gathered together that it was like a cloud. Just like Paul would describe in I Thessalonians 4:17,when Jesus returns with those who have passed on before us. It’s simply describing a multitude of people.
We are not flying away somewhere. Remember, Jesus is returning to the Mount of Olives. He will set his feet down there upon his return (Zechariah 1:1-4, Acts 1:11-12). If you continue reading the next chapter (I Thessalonians 5:1-6) Paul tells us to stay awake, be sober and watch. Had a rapture been a part of God's plan we wouldn't be reminded of this.
Now let’s take a look at Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians.
II Thessalonians 2:1
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"
The topic here is the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we gather back together with Him.
II Thessalonians 2:2
"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."
Paul wrote this second letter to the Thessalonians as the first caused some confusion concerning our gathering back to the Lord.
II Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
What day shall not come? The Day of the Lord, our gathering back unto Him. What “falling away?” The “falling away” from God’s Word. “Falling away” is Strong’s word 646 which means “defection from truth”. We see that becoming more prevalent day by day. Who is the man of sin, the son of perdition? It’s none other than Satan himself. He is the only one that has been condemned to death by name (Revelation 20:10, Ezekiel 28:18-19).
This is saying very clearly that the Day of the Lord, His return, will NOT happen until Satan who plays the role of the false messiah, who pretends to be Jesus Christ has been revealed. This makes it utterly impossible for there to be a rapture.
II Thessalonians 2:4
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
The "son of perdition", Satan, is going to put on the best acting job you ever witnessed. He will claim to be our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is why Christ would tell us, 'if they say I am here or there believe it not', this is why he warned us of false Christs.
II Thessalonians 2:5
5 "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"
6 "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."
Who will be revealed? Satan, who will set himself up as, and claim to be Jesus Christ.
II Thessalonians 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."
Who is he that letteth? It is Michael the archangel. Until who be taken out of the way? The subject is still Satan. Michael is holding Satan in heaven until it’s time for Michael to cast him and HIS ANGELS out (Revelation 12:7-9), then Satan will be here on earth claiming to be Christ.
II Thessalonians 2:8
"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
What wicked? Satan, who will appear first at the sixth trump, claiming to be Jesus Christ as verse four states. Then our Lord will return at the seventh trump to destroy him. Remember, there are a total of seven trumps and they are all in order. Follow the sequence.
II Thessalonians 2:9
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"
Once again, Jesus coming is after the workings of Satan, not before. What power and signs is verse nine referring to? Satan will “doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men” (Revelation 13:13). He does this right in the sight of men! This is very deceptive is it not?
Jesus is returning to the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 1:1-4, Acts 1:11-12) and he is bringing many of those who passed on before us with him. Once again this leaves absolutely no room for a rapture my friends. Quite the contrary, our job is going to be to prophesy against the false messiah, Satan (Luke 21:12-18).
Matthew 24:29
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
After the tribulation of those days, which are the days of Anti-Christ. The days when Satan will play his role as Jesus Christ, that is the tribulation. Christ will not return until after the false messiah (Satan) is kicked out of heaven and is upon this earth. As we have learned in II Thessalonians 2:2-4.
Matthew 24:30
"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
Notice the word "clouds" again? Just as Hebrews 12:1 uses it with reference to people. This event happens AFTER the tribulation of Anti-Christ who is Satan not before.
Next we are going to turn our bibles to the book of Revelation. Many are never taught this book. They are told it’s not important. I beg to differ, more importantly God does. The very word Revelation means, “Be Revealed”, “to take off the cover”. Let’s do that.
Revelation 22:18
18 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:"
19 "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
If this book wasn’t important, this warning would not have been given. It’s extremely important, as is all of the Word of God. Another commonly taught scripture that there will be a rapture can be found in Revelation 4:1.
Let’s turn there.
Revelation 4:1
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."
It’s taught that the voice in heaven is speaking to the church and they will be removed from the earth during the tribulation. Was the voice talking to the church? Absolutely not! The voice from heaven was talking to John (Revelation 1:1). John was then shown the future… God is NOT bringing the church to heaven, God is coming here. Wherever God is, heaven is also.
Revelation 7:1
"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."
These winds signal the start of the trumps. We know trump one harms the earth and trees. Trump two harms the sea.
Revelation 7:2
2 "And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,"
3 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."
The four angels holding the winds back were told by another angel with a loud voice NOT to release the four winds which start the trumps until the servants of God have been sealed (the seven seals of Revelation 6; 8)! It’s so important they be sealed the trumps can’t start until this sealing is completed. Why is there such emphasis of this sealing if a rapture were true? If there was a rapture we wouldn’t need to be sealed with God’s Truth.
Revelation 7:9
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
We are at the Lord’s Day here. The tribulation has now passed.
Revelation 7:10
10 "And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."
11 "And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,"
12 "Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen."
13 "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"
The Elder says to John who are these in white robes standing around God’s throne?
Revelation 7:14
14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
15 "Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."
These are the very saints who stood against Satan and came out of the great tribulation. They are rewarded by serving at the very throne of God. For them to have came out of the great tribulation, they had to go through it.
Jesus said himself in John 17:15, “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”
We have many examples of that, God protecting his own. The stories of Noah and the ark, Daniel in the lions den, Jonah in the whales belly, the three in the fiery furnace. God always takes care of his own, those who truly love him will be safe, those who stick to His Word and stand against the false messiah.
In conclusion, I would encourage you to read all of the bible verses listed and mentioned in this study. This is an extremely important topic, one your soul may very well hang in the balance of... Why do the people wish for rocks to fall on them when the Lord returns? They have been worshipping Satan who they thought was Jesus Christ! What an awful day that will be for those who truly love Christ, but were neither taught, nor took the time to educate themselves with what His Word actually says…
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You have definitely given me something to think about.
ReplyDeleteA very prominent theologian once said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "If, in fact, there is no rapture, then the Banquet in Heaven Jesus speaks about will have to be a box lunch!", since the resurrection precedes the return of Christ and He returns with His saints. (Sorry folks, no time to eat, we have to run, we have a battle to go to so you'll have to fight on an empty stomach!) Really? (And here He'll need to squeeze in the judgement of the saints before the lunch!)
ReplyDeleteEither we believe in the rapture of the church or we don't. In my mind, so-called mid-trib believers are saying that those on earth will suffer God's wrath along with the unbieliving world.
God's wrath will be poured out on an un-believing world!
BillybonesIII,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your participation. I don’t believe any of us should be concerned with what any Theologian said. No, we should be worried about what the Word of God says. Those who have died before us will comeback with Christ at the seventh trump. Christ doesn’t come twice, he comes once to the mount of Olives. Why would you want to leave when Christ is coming here? To stay on topic, do you have a bible verse you would like to use in support of a rapture? As none of them here do that. I plan to do a follow up as there is so much more to this topic.
Brandon
DeleteIn all courtesy, I will not be drawn into an argument but please read I Thess. 4:15, 17 (NAS). Jesus clearly comes with the trumpet of God [not the seventh/last trump as some believe.] We who are alive at this coming go up to meet Him in the air. This is NOT the second coming as some think since He does not touch the earth.
This is where I think many make the error that this is the return. It is not!
But whether you believe or not in this interpretation, your salvation is secure if you believe that God came to earth to be born into a human body as Jesus(Emmanuel) and that he subsequently died on the Cross for my/our sin(of unbelief).
That brother, is the simple message of salvation. The gospel.
I will say no more on this.
God bless you
BillybonesIII,
DeleteYou may contact me if you wish to continue the discussion. For the watchers…
In I Thes. 4 13- the topic at hand is the returning of the Lord and our gathering back to him. Not the escape of the church nor is the church the topic, neither was it in Revelation, as documented.
There are only seven trumps, the trump of God is the seventh, the last. Always seek a second witness to what you perceive to believe. II Thes. 2 details the return as documented in this study. It will not happen until Satan is here claiming to be Christ. The saints go through the tribulation as documented in God’s Word (Rev. 7).
Furthermore, the rapture is a recent invention which started in the early 1800s. A troubled girl named Margret McDonald had a dream that the saints would be taken off the earth. You can read the book which documents this historically. It’s titled: The Incredible Cover-up found at: http://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Cover-Up-Dave-MacPherson/dp/0931608066.
Thanks for this timely post. I plan to share it with my family and friends.
ReplyDeleteI personally do not subscribe to a pre-trib rapture or sometimes called a "secret rapture".... NTL, it is a very comforting extra-biblical doctrine preached in many churches. The rationale used is the second coming as described clearly above is not the rapture, but the rapture is a separate event, at the beginning of the TRIB, which is justified by the belief that Christians will not suffer persecution. It is a VERY APPEALING teaching, and it is almost impossible to dispute the "secret rapture" to those that fear persecution.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.oneplace.com/ministries/66-40/player/12-03-2012-the-rapture-part-1-311396.html
ReplyDeleteTake a few minutes and listen to Chuck Missler, parts 1 - 5.
It will shed some light and understanding on the subject.
Hummer
There is no rapture .... "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that t
ReplyDeletehou shouldest keep them from the evil." -Jesus (John 17:15)
Brandon,
ReplyDeleteWhat about the verse that clearly says God has not appointed us to wrath?
The Tribulation IS wrath.
What about God not judging Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot was gone? Something does not add up. What about Enoch and Elijah being a demonstration of being "taken"?
inChristalone
inChristalone,
DeleteThank you for the comment. Can we argue with God’s plan? Biblically, what has God always required? The people to do the work. Who fed the multitude the fish and bread? It wasn’t Jesus, he told his disciples to do it (Jesus power was behind it). Jesus being God in the flesh came to show us how to get it done. I would encourage you to read Luke 21:12-18. The subject is the end, the tribulation, and that you, being one of God’s people will be used as a testimony for the entire world. The Holy Spirit will speak through you at that time. This is a study in itself. Christ has told you, you will be put before kings and rules to fulfill His Word. What a gracious honor! How will you do that if you are “ruptured?”
inChristalone
DeleteThe tribulation is not wrath, it is trouble caused by satan being here on the earth. It is a trial, are you going to be deceived and follow satan or will you be working in the field until the true Christ returns. Christ will not return until AFTER the falling way, at which time the desolator will be revealed as satan himself.
At that time everyone who though they were going to be raptured away is going to be so ashamed of themselves for worshiping satan they are going to wish they were dead and try to hide from Christ and his angels.
It is pretty simple, the trumps are a call to action, watch any war movie, when they blow the trumpet it means to take action and do something. The trumps happen in order.
6 comes before 7 most people know that much.
satan gets here at the 6th and Christ returns at the 7th. In every school in the world they teach you 6 comes before 7. Do you not know this?
You are being deceived, there is no rapture. Christ is coming back with a cloud of angels in their breath of life (spiritual) bodies. We will see him coming, when he puts his feet on the mount of olives, that is it, no time left, no repenting at this point, too late. Everyone will be changed instantly into there breath of life bodies and the 1000 years begins here on earth, with Christ. Sorry Captain, Scotty cannot beam you out of this one.
If you are still in a flesh body, then Christ is not here. If Christ says get away from Me, I never knew you, then you screwed up and followed satan. Believing in the rapture is one sure way to follow satan. Everyone who is alive on earth is going through the tribulation. Only the Elect know the truth and will stand against satan. The rest will bow a knee. You are not going anywhere, but you are setting yourself up for a fall.
BillyBones, time is short, you need to start rightly dividing the word of God. That means you need to understand what you are reading. You haven't a clue. Satan is coming first at the 6th trump then Christ comes at the 7th, obviously you cannot count to 7. When satan gets here pretending to be Christ you are going to bow a knee to him. You already have the mark of the beast in your forehead. That means in your brain. You have already been deceived.
ReplyDeleteTo InChristAlone and all those who may be struggling with this teaching.
ReplyDeleteFathers wrath will be pour out on the earth toward the end of tribulation, but not on those who love and serve Him. This has been His way throughout time. Look at Egypt as the example, how His own had light and freedom from the 10 plagues poured out while their neighbors took the force of His wrath.
As for facing the enemy, surely Father has prepared us to stand with His armor , sword, helmet and shield against the adversary. Father will give His children the strength and supply every need and in Daniel chapter 10 : they will "do exploits".
I understand how some of you feel hearing this for perhaps the first time. I remember that at first, for me it did not compute. That was because I did not have a fullness of the Word in understanding, only the teachings of men. But I challenge you all to seek His Word and not the "traditions of men", even putting out a fleece in prayer seeking the facts there with the leading and teaching of the Spirit for truths we shall all soon face. Prepare with faith in Him to withstand any and every day He has proclaimed for us on the earth.
One thing for sure, His plan will stand whether any of us understand /accept it or not.
I can do all things...remember?
Many believers think that Matthew 24:40-41 describes the rapture. I often wondered what that verse was about. It always troubled me since it didn't really say it was the rapture; therefore, does Matt 24:40-41 really pertain to the rapture?
ReplyDelete1. Context--The context of Matt 24:40-41 does not suggest Yeshua is talking about a "rapture". The context is one in which we find Yeshua talking about the judgment of the ungodly. See verse 37-39, which establishes the context of verses 40-41. Note, Yeshua says that the flood "TOOK them all AWAY" meaning that they were TAKEN/killed in judgment/destruction. Verses 40-41 use the same wording, "one will be TAKEN".
2. Parallel Passage--Luke also records the same utterances from Yeshua, albeit with extra insight. In Luke 17:34-37 the disciples ask where will those who are TAKEN, be TAKEN to? In verse 37, those who are TAKEN are TAKEN to a place of judgment/destruction (a place of carcasses and vultures). Note how both passages give the same message. People TAKEN as in the day of Noah, into judgment/destruction. Clearly the place is not one someone wants to be "raptured" to.
3. The Parable of the weeds--In the parable of the weeds Yeshua also talks about the end of the age when He returns (Matt 13:40-43). Note, when He comes He will send forth the angels to TAKE all the unsaved into judgment/destruction. Again, this passage matches up perfectly with the two referenced above. When He returns, He will first destroy the unsaved by taking them to a place of judgment/destruction.
4. A question of timing--Both the Matthew passage and the Luke passage give the timing of the TAKING AWAY. It's AFTER the "tribulation of those days". So even if it did refer to the rapture (which it obviously doesn't) it wouldn't occur until after the tribulation, not before. Both of those passages clearly describe an event after the tribulation.
5. Note, Revelation 19:17 When Yeshua returns, an angel calls the birds/vultures of the earth to prepare for a feast on the flesh of people. Verse 21 states that when Yeshua returns, the remnant (of evil doers, i.e., the tares of Mt 13) will be killed by Yeshua and that the fowl will eat their flesh. These scriptures match perfectly with those found in Mt 13, 24 and Lk 17.
6. It is a mistake to apply the Scriptures above to the rapture 1) because NONE
of them say anything about BELIEVERS being RAPTURED to MEET
YESHUA in the AIR to be with HIM FOREVER, and 2) because none of
the parallel passages teach anything about BELIEVERS being RAPTURED
to MEET YESHUA in the AIR to be with HIM FOREVER. As you can see,
the parallel passages do not support (in any stretch of the imagination) a
secret pre-trib rapture of the church. This is very important. Please read the
passages again. They don't state any of the above statements concerning a
pre-trib rapture as is so popularly taught.
7. Last but not least: The Biblical understanding of Being "Taken Away"
The current interpretation by many believers is that those taken away
in Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are taken away in the rapture.
Torah Foundation--Although most believers would mentally agree that the
Tanakh ("Old Testament") is the foundation for understanding the New Covenant
("New Testament"), few hardly ever build the foundation of their faith on the
Tanakh, which is the only true biblical source for a foundation.
As with most non-Jewish believers who were saved and discipled in the
traditional Church institution, the foundations of my
This less than ideal understanding will exist because you will lack the proper foundational understanding to interpret Renewed Covenant passages properly. This should be self-evident. Earlier I stated that the Tanakh couldn't be fully understood without the illumination of the Renewed Covenant Scriptures. Now we see that the reverse is true also. It will be impossible to fully comprehend the Renewed Covenant Scriptures without the foundation from the Tanakh. They are two witnesses that go hand in hand. Understanding that Torah is a FOUNDATION for understanding the New Covenant Scriptures, we can go to the Torah and quickly learn that the phrase "take away" was a Hebrew idiom which meant to destroy/kill something/someone. When Yeshua spoke of some people being taken and some left, He was simply using this idiom to say that those taken were taken for destruction. Here are only a few verses (from the Tanakh) of the many, that clearly teach--to be TAKEN AWAY is to be taken to destruction: · Isaiah 57:13 When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain;
ReplyDelete· Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.
· Isaiah 40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown:
yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.
· Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
· Ezekiel 30:4 And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.
· Ezekiel 33:4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
· Daniel 11:12 And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it.
· Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
· Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
· 2 Kings 12:3 2 But the high places were not taken away: the people still sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places. In light of 1) the proper analysis of Yeshua's statements in their context and 2) understanding "TAKEN AWAY" as a Hebrew idiom for destruction, I don’t think the passage in Matthew 24 is a proof text for the "rapture". In the context of Matthew 24, I think I’d rather be
LEFT BEHIND
"This less than ideal understanding will exist because you will lack the proper foundational understanding to interpret Renewed Covenant passages properly."
Delete"Earlier I stated that the Tanakh couldn't be fully understood without the illumination of the Renewed Covenant Scriptures."
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What planet are you from buddy? Drop the trash talk and keep your tanakh to yourself. We are Christians here, not whatever it is you are talking about. We go by God's word, not what you and other men dream up. Get yourself a KJV bible and a Strong's Concordance. Translate the words back to what was in the original manuscripts and learn some truth. You are so far from God's truth you are either utterly deceived or you are intentionally doing satan's work and deceiving people. Either way, God is not happy with you. Christ said not to change his word, haven't you read?
Brandon,
ReplyDeleteI believe your thesis is in error. Please consider a couple reasons.
1. You changed the word "air" to "breath" ignoring the context of "clouds".
2. 2pet 1:20 Privately interpreting the “trump of God” as the “last trumpet, the seventh” found in revelation. The trump of God is distinguishing the authority and certainty of the shout. 1 Cor 14:7,8,10 This is Jesus Christ himself (read the text) using the voice of an "angel" not man’s voice and the authority of God to raise the dead and catch "up" the living for a battle that is about to take place. No changing of words or context necessary.
3. You started out over exaggerating about churches teaching this doctrine. It is abandoned regularly because of false prophets predicting dates, teachers that do not know how to study and “rightly divide” the scriptures as directed, and people that are tired of waiting. The Catholic Church does not teach a pre-tribulation rapture so that when it happens they can tell the world that Jesus has come and the tribulation is over when in reality it is just starting.
4. God has one unfulfilled week (7years) to deal specifically with Israel. The bible states and warns of teachers that miss this important point. Read carefully.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Rom 11:25
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Rom 11:15
Did you get that "life from the dead"
5. II Thes, is dealing with two events, (his coming “and” the gathering) two preconditions and two revelations.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
Paul said “remember…I told you these things?” “and now ye know what withholdeth” I’m sorry but it is not Michael the Archangel.
I won’t tell but I’ll give you a clue. Jesus cannot come back until the Anti-christ is revealed and the Anti-christ cannot be revealed until something is taken out of the way. And remember He’s already told you what that is.
Mysteries in the Bible are written so that some can understand while others scratch their head.
I hope you will reconsider your error. There are hundreds of verses new and old that teach a disaperance/departure of people and then the tribulation.
Pastor Steve
Pastor Steve,
DeleteThanks for your comment.
Firstly, I didn’t change the word. Look it up yourself in the Strong’s Concordance. It’s 109 which I documented. Understand the Bible was NOT written in English but translated to it. There was no English language in those days.
Secondly, I couldn’t respectfully disagree with your comment more. II Thes. 2 is about the return, what happens when someone comes home when they are gone for along time? You go love on them. You don’t all disappear somewhere when they show up or go hide for awhile. Nor does II Thes. 2 give any indication of this. You are partly right, saying Jesus won’t return until Anti-Christ is revealed. The man of sin, the son of perdition that is Satan we are talking about. Satan is the Anti-Christ who comes in peace as the book of Daniel so states.
http://brandontward.blogspot.com/2010/04/who-is-antichrist.html
By accepting the rapture doctrine you are lining yourself up and your congregation to accept the first one that comes, you will be worshipping Satan and think it’s Christ. Very dangerous my friend.
God expects his people to speak before kings, to have the Holy Spirit speak through them for a testimony (Luke 21). How will you do that if you’re gone? Jesus is coming back here friend. Look back to the book of Daniel. The three stood their ground and were thrown into the fiery furnace that was heated seven times hotter than it needed to be. They didn’t disappear. No, Jesus protected his servants who stand by Him, He was in the fire with them and they were just fine. Not even the smell of smoke on their clothes.
The Bible is not in error sir, it is mans misunderstandings. There is no room for a rapture. We are watchman and are awaiting the day of his return but before that day we must go through tribulation and I’m looking forward to it. Doing the Lord’s work at that time!
I just wanted to take the time to thank you my friend sound teaching straight "out of the word of GOD " . There can be no deniing when all your doing is relaying a message from the bible . Now days and ESPECIALLY in American POP-culture feel good Christianity people "LOVE " to argue and bicker about the WORD OF GOD ,because some "TEACHER" has taught some lesson on a suject in their past or present . Well my friends , I dont mean to be any form of berrer of bad tidings, but , it does say in GODs Word , that in the last days many will gather to themselves teachers with iching ears who teach false doctrine and doctrines of demons . I am no scholar , I am no theologian , I AM "CHIEF" among all sinners , so nobody has to or should take my word for it ..........ALL I truthfully ask from the bottom of my heart is that in the days ahead of us that we as "THE WORLD" are faced with , please treat EACH OTHER with BROTHERLY LOVE and ALL kindness , for the greatest thing we could ever posssibly HOPE to accomplish in this short life on earth is to love ONE ANOTHER as CHRIST first loved us and showed us a path as HE first died for us and gave himself for us on that cross of calvary . It says in LUKE that we should not argue with one another and bicker and fight for it is not beneficial to the faith that we proclaim we ALL have .......each and every one of us who are in CHRIST JESUS OUR TRUE AND LIVING SAVIOR ! For if we look and act just like the world around us what differance have we then ? And this I Promise my dearest brothers and sisters ........how can we win the lost to CHRIST AND CHRIST ALONE if we dont show them first how to love by the way in which we love one another , for i promise , they already have enough reasons to HATE us .............I Ask us in this hour and time of such need , let us ALL lay down pride and childish differances and take up our CROSS of humility and lead those who are truely lost ! AMEN ! AND AMEN !
ReplyDeleteI truely love you all with only CHRIST LOVE AND HIM ALONE . your friend PERRY
Perry,
DeleteThank you for your comment. Please share if you believe it could help someone else.
BRANDON DO YOU KNOW JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOUR BY JESUS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED? NOW GO TO 1CORTH. 2:14-16. WITH THE LOVE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, TY
ReplyDeleteIf you take the time to look around the site you will know this to be true.
DeleteI understand your point. Accepting Jesus Christ will get you through the gate. But do you want to be naked in heaven? Many mistake judgment day as a bad thing. For those who perform evil deeds. It will be a bad day. For those who follow his Word with righteous acts it will be a wonderful day. The saints will inherit God himself. What a wonderful promise. No one ever received a blessing by running away from God’s Word or the Work he has required of us. During the tribulation some of us will be blessed enough to have the Holy Spirit speak through us before kings and rulers for a testimony of the Lord which NO man can gainsay against. Will you be one of them? Luke 21.
Right on Brandon, well said. Keep up the good work.
DeleteBrandon,
ReplyDeleteYou did change the meaning of the word by finding a second connotation of the word. A trick people use regularly to make the Bible say what they want.
Waiting for the rapture is the ONLY doctrine that saves anyone from accepting anyone that comes. I don’t meet Jesus on this earth; I meet Him on a cloud. That my friend is not an Anti-christ deception.
Anonymous is very correct about “taken away”, but there is a much easier way to see it.
(Luk 17:27) . . .the flood came, and destroyed them all.
(Mat 24:39) . . .the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(Luk 17:36) Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(Luk 17:37) And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
“took them all away”, “destroyed them all” Jesus answers the question HIMSELF Lk 17:37. The people “left” are going to enjoy a thousand years of peace with Jesus Christ and the “RESURECTED” saints that God brings with him.
The church is not the doctrinal fulfillment of Lk 21 although they have been doing this very thing since the first arrest(see the book of Acts et al.) The turning of the nation of Israel to Jesus Christ is the Biblical mandated purpose of the tribulation.
To say Michael is the withholder when the answer is in the text is Looney tunes.
See you in the breath.
The verses concerning the flood. What happened to those people? They were destroyed, they were bad people who didn't listen to God. This is not talking about a rapture.
DeleteConcerning two in the field. What is the subject? The coming of the Lord. What’s it say in the scripture? Let’s read.
Matthew 24
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Watch because you don’t know when he will return. If a rapture were true there would be no need to watch. Jesus is saying one will be taken by anti-christ, deceived. What does Jesus say to the faithful servant still working in the field? Blessed is that servant.
Right on Brandon! We have to 1st and foremost be obeying Messiah Yahushua's commandments proving we love him. This is the kind of love that is not a tinkling cymbal or clanking gong. This also will keep us from being lukewarm in these last days! That is certainly something no believer wants to be is lukewarm for Messiah will spit us out and count us with the enemy for there is no neutral ground with Messiah. We are either for him or against him. We are to watch and pray to be counted worthy and anyone doing that will be obeying Him for you will be wanting him to say well done thou good and faithful servant. So let's be prepared to be instant in season and out. Let's occupy til Messiah returns and we will see him at the last trumpet!
DeletePastor Sumner,
DeleteWhen Christ returns he is going to deal with you false pastors first before he moves on to the fools that listened to you. That is the wrath that is coming, that is the cup Christ asked God to take away if it be His will, and that is what you have to look forward to. Christ has a rod of iron with your name on it.
2 Thess. 2:2-3 - "falling away" is the common modern translation of the greek word apostasia. Before the King James version came into being (which by the way has some major issues, as a result of the King's demands, but not fundamentals of the faith fortunately), all versions to that date agreed that apostasia was to be understood to mean a DEPARTURE, not a falling away. This is critical and helps so many other verses make sense.
ReplyDeleteALong these lines, I ask a question - what good Bridegroom allows his bried to experience his own wrath? None. The truth is, our Bridegroom, Yeshua, will NOT permit His Bride to experience His own wrath. How is this possible? Yeshua said He goes to prepare a place for us (the prepared aka His Bride - John 14:2-3). Revelation 12:6 then describes just such a place for the "woman" escaping into the wilderness, while at the same time, the dragon is being cast down to earth. The Bride and the Dragon (Satan) trade places.
Be a good Berean and check all this out for yourself.
Scott in Texas,
DeleteWelcome. The word “falling away” here is Greek word 646 in your Strong’s Concordance. The word “away” can mean:
feminine of the same as - apostasion 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):--falling away, forsake.
So the word is correct in the KJV, “falling away”. Please follow the timing sequence. II Thes 2 says, Christ shall NOT return until the man of sin is revealed. The man of sin is Satan. Why is the timing so hard to follow? For your claim to be true it would contradict a big portion of the bible.
God’s wrath is not poured out until the seventh trump when He returns. Let me ask you this. Were the three harmed when they were thrown into the fiery furnace, when it was heated seven times hotter? Was Daniel harmed in the lion’s den? Did Noah and those aboard the ark perish in the flood? The answer is no. During the tribulation God will also comfort those who stand by Him as He protected those who stood by Him before. Luke 21 tells us, during the tribulation we will be brought before kings and rulers to allow the Holy Spirit to speak through us. It continues by saying NOT ONE HAIR ON YOUR HEAD SHALL PERISH. Just like during the days of old you will be ok.
We should not be afraid or lean on feel good doctrine when God’s Word gives us all knowledge if we only seek it out.
satan comes before Christ posing as JESUS CHRIST--
ReplyDeletesatan at the 6th seal -6th trump-6thvial-(you will still be here in flesh -CHRIST comes last 7-7-7 after satan.
1--Rev.13:11-The beast looks like a lamb!!but speaks as a dragon REV.13:18-666
2--1 JOHN 2:18 antichrist in the strongs concordance is from g 473 is INSTEAD, Substitution.
3--Rev.12:9,10 Names of satan-great dragon,old serpent,deceiver,accuser,devil.
4--Dan.7:8 Twelve more names for satan(see kjv companion bible side note.
5--2nd CORIN. 11:13-15-satan transformed himself into an angel of light( transformed g3345 in strongs concordance is to transfigure or disguise.)
6--Ezek.28:1-19 prince of tyrus -antitype, tyrus h6865 rock not our rock sitting in the seat of GOD showing himself as GOD, the covering cherub.
7--Isaiah 14:12-17 L ucifer the bright morning star( h1966 in the strongs ) Showing himself like the MOST HIGH sitting in the place of God.
8--Dan.8:23-25 the king of furious countenance-antichrist shall destroy WONDERFULLY ,AND BY PEACE shall destroy many.
9--Dan.11:21-24 the vile person-antichrist comes in PEACEABLY !! AND WITH FLATTERIES.
10--2ND THESS. son of perdition , antichrist,( from g622 in strongs concordance TO PERISH) The only one sentenced to death by name Ezek.28:18, sitting in the temple of god showing himself as CHRIST at the 666 then comes the TRUE CHRIST at the 7th seal,7th trump, 7th vial after the working of satan 2nd Thess.2:9
11--Mark 13:22-26 After that Tribulation of antichrist 6-6-6 seal trump vial then shall the son of man-come in the clouds 7-7-7seal,trump,vial.
12-- Acts 1:4 Wait in Jerusalem-to Acts 1:9 CHRIST was taken up in a cloud-Acts 1:10, two men said why stand ye gazing up into heaven?this same JESUS ,which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen HIM go into heaven-Acts 1:11, this happen sat the MT. OLIVET Acts 1:12 SATAN CAN ONLY COPY WHAT IS WRITTEN!
13--1ST Corin. 15:51-52 AT THE LAST!!( G2078IN THE STRONGS MEANS THE FARTHEST FINAL )TRUMP 7-7-7 WE ALL SHALL all be CHANGED, INTO A INCORRUPTIBLE BODY AT THE 7-7-7 SEAL,TRUMP,VIAL.
COMMENT: THERE ARE ONLY 7 TRUMPS SO I FYOU SEE SOMEONE POSING AS JESUS CHRIST YOUR STILL IN A FLESH BODY AND NOT CHANGED INTO YOUR SPIRITUAL BODY THAN YOU ARE STILL IN THE 6TH TRUMP WITH THE ANTICHRIST SHOWING HIMSELF AS CHRIST, WAIT FOR THE TRUE CHRISTAT THE 7TH TRUMP. LUKE 21;20 WATCH JERUSALEM, MARK 13:33 WATCH!-JOEL BLOW YE THE TRUMPET IN ZION AND SOUND AN ALARM ON THE DECEPTION1
THERE ARE 2 CHRISTS
***FALSE CHRIST,** COMES AT 6SEAL6TRUMP6VIAL--TRYING TO DECEIVE YOU INTO WORSHIPPING HIM ,YOU CAN ONLY SEE THE FALSE CHRIST WHILE YOU ARE IN A FLESH BODY.
***TRUE CHRIST,**comes at the 7seal7trump7vial, you can't see the "TRUE CHRIST" until you are in your spiritual body 1Cor. 15:51-52
yes Brandon ,i most definitely agree --this is a great site--compliments of Peg aka slapthedevil
Thank you for your participation Peg!
DeleteBrandon,
ReplyDeleteGood study--very logical, Biblically sound and to the point!! There will be NO return of Christ (in the clouds or anywhere else) until AFTER Satan and his fallen angels have been here on earth in Jerusalem deceiving the world and claiming Satan is "Almighty God" etc. Speaking of I Thessalonians 4 and "clouds", Paul makes very interesting use of the word "clouds" in Hebrews 12 "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a CLOUD OF WITNESSES, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us" (Hebrews 12:1). So here Paul is talking about a CLOUD of Christian witnesses that all gather to Christ at His Return---which does not take place until the 7th Trump--the Final Trump.
All Pastors, "Bible teachers", ministers, etc who teach contrary to sound Biblical doctrine are not only obviously deceived--they will have A LOT to answer for if they end up leading their entire congregations to worshiping Satan ie the FIRST "Messiah" to set foot on the earth with his New World Order--global government. Christ is going to be doing a lot of "spewing" people out of His mouth at the time unfortunately (See Matthew 7). Thank the Eternal Father there is the 1000-Year period for people who screw up now to hopefully get things right with Christ during that time. Blessed is he who gets it right NOW, remains faithful to the True Christ through the tribulation period and takes part in the 1st Resurrection ie gets to serve Christ in His earthly Kingdom coming. Thanks again Brandon and keep up the good work!!
Wonderful study Brandon. I would like to add that the word "air" in I Thess Chapter 4 verse 17 is 109 in the greek dictionary in your Strong's Concordance. It means "to Breathe" or simply "Breath". The hebrew word for breath or "to breathe" is Ruwach. 7307 or 7306 in the Hebrew dictionary in your concordance. What does Ruwach mean in English? Spirit! The Holy Spirit.
ReplyDeleteThat is what this means here in I Thess. We are to meet the Lord in the Spirit. See I Cornithians 15:50-54. We cannot meet or be with Jesus or God; neither can we enter Heaven in our flesh bodies. Those of us still here in the flesh have to be changed. In the twinkling of an eye. We must put on the incorruptable.
The clouds mentioned in I Thess 4:17 is not what many think. It is not the puffy, cotton looking things we see up in the sky. See Hebrews 12:1. "So great a cloud of witnesses". We are talking about a lot of people coming with the Lord as he descends from Heaven back to earth. His destination: Mt Olives. His sights on Jerusalem. He comes with a rod of iron. For war.
We who stayed faithful to Him will join Him when he descends with all those people who are Christian who have died and went before us to Heaven. This is what these verses in I Thess mean. Just as Brandon said "Follow the subject". I hope this helps some of you who still have confusions concerning this topic. God Bless you all in your studies.
Great study Brandon!
ReplyDeleteThis subject, like so many others in the Bible, is so clear-cut, it is hard to understand how many people do not understand. It would seem like a person would need to have a huge leap of faith to believe in the rapture theory. It is called only a theory because, it cannot possibly be proven.
The million dollar question is why do so many people believe the rapture rubbish? Let's look at a few possibilities:
1.) The rapture is what I was taught by a reputable teacher. Everyone wants to believe in their Pastor. After all, he is a man of God!... Years ago, I used to go to this Baptist Church. As far as I could tell, the Pastor was apparently still teaching everything he was taught in his training 40 years prior.
2.) Psychological. It is much more desirable to believe in the rapture. The thought of going through a tribulation is not very appealing at all!
3.) Ego. After believing something for so long, it is really hard for people to admit they were wrong. The mind has a way of rationalizing. We believe what we want to believe. Don't let facts get in the way!
I am certain that there are other reasons, as for why people cling to this rapture theory. Perhaps some of you can provide some thoughts.
These are just some of the potential reasons why people do not believe the truth about any subject. In this case, the rapture. All I can say is to keep an open mind. Pray on it, seek the truth. It sets you free! (Proverbs 23:23) Buy the truth, and sell it not; Also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
Great points Rod. People want to cling to the traditions they were taught by their so-called "Pastors". I mean, after, Pastors or Seminaries cant be WRONG about anything can they?! If that were true then how would one explain how the Scribes and Pharisees in Christ's day (the so-called "LEARNED ELDERS OF THE LAW" did not understand Who Yeshua the Christ is even though He had performed tons of miracles that were prophesied about Him? In Daniel 9:24-27 it's made very clear that 483 years after Daniel uttered those words, Messiah would be here on earth beginning His ministry. The Scribes and Pharisees all had knowledge of the book of Daniel. My point is man needs to put their faith in the Almighty and put their faith in NO MAN--Pastor or otherwise. Let the Holy Spirit and common sense by your guide. Study to shew yourself approved as the Good Book says: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (II Timothy 2:15).
ReplyDeleteVery nice and detailed picture of why there is no rapture, Brandon. Hopefully many will read and understand. We're not here to be babies, we're here to fight the devil. Thanks for posting.
ReplyDeleteA very good article! The "secret rapture" theory is only about 170 years old. The ancient church,many of whom heard the apostles, did not teach this, but taught that the Body of CHRIST, the Church, would be on earth until HIS+ return in Power and Great Glory. The Church will be shielded and kept (sealed) and the judgements/wrath will be upon those who worship anti-christ/satan, and will not touch HIS+ sealed and shielded "called-out" ones, HIS+ Church. Our calling is to stand strong for our LORD+, JESUS CHRIST, and proclaim HIM+ to all. HE+ is with HIS+ servants. HE+ has not left us here as orphans. We are HIS+ disciples and our joy is to do those things HE+ said and to keep HIS+ sayings. HE+ is our LIFE.
ReplyDeleteThank you again for this good post. Bless you.